And people tell me that I am overthinking life and the meaning of it*? When most things I end up reading nowadays, in the news papers and other places, qoutes things like that and the Forbes' questionaire about which age is best for women to have children in (note; it does not consider things like "having a stable relationship and life partner" or "financially ok", just have children as a woman). Yeah, let's not go there since it is a sore place for me.
I had a longer post written in my head about a conversation that happened at work the other week, but decided to erase it. Why? It became too personal. In short, I turned into "the child" in a Q&A from some people, who are all parents... and since I was a least 15 years younger and with no children of my own, I could answer to why their children (most under the age of 25) were behaving as they were (of course, I couldn't but hey, who cares - let's stereotype a bit more). It spilled into a longer discusssion about "letting your parents down as a child and you should really think about them and their feelings" [the parents' feelings that is] and that "you have a PhD so you haven't let them down" until someone in the group reminded the rest of them that I was in fact on the other side of the pond compared to my parents, and childless on top of that, so maybe I had let them down on the most important part; grandchildren and being close for the comfort of my parents/family.
That killed the conversation. Go figure.
And I had some food for thought about my up-coming parental visit. I'm already knowing part of the discussion, and I don't have any good answers. I'm trying to be a good person here, ok. If "being happy" would be enough, it would be nice.
Clearly, I should have found my life partner in my early 20ies, then been married and pregnant by 25 and then it would have all sorted out. (I wouldn't have said no to meeting the man of my dreams then, but it didn't happen. So sue me.) Oh, and I should have been pretty too. And snagged a rich husband. Who wanted nothing but to take care of me and support me while I used the vaccumer. Well, I ended up with brains - like the PetShop Boys' song Opportunities - and missed out on going looking for looks (since I like brains *zombie*) and I did not stumble into any rich men who wanted to marry me.... guess I should have foreseen the future a bit better by 23?
Can you tell I'm most likely in the beginning of having a midlife crisis?
[an update/clarification. I would have loved to have met my Significant Other at 23. And I would have loved for our love to be strong and having children. It's just that I didn't meet that person then, and therefore I didn't get children who know are in kindergarden or so. It just feel a bit personal in the whole debate when it comes to "why don't you have XYW" and I don't feel like saying "because I wasn't attractive to anyone that I was attracted to in my 20ies?" Somehow it feels a bit too much to explain my choices, or lack thereof, to people just because they want to make a comment or ten of my life.]
*if you have the answer for what the meaning is, and it's not 42, please let me know. It'd save me a lot of grief.
15 comments:
Hang in there Chall. I feel for you with shitstorm of people who want you to tie your self-worth to marriage and reproduction. They're wrong...but you already know that. They probably aren't ever going to shut up about it...but you probably already know that too. I don't know what else to say about it.
Sometimes when I find myself in the situations you describe I really want to throw a huge screaming fit. Sometimes I think it might actually work - if I cause a big enough scene then maybe they will be scared to bring it up again right? Then again it might just make me that scary crazy person that people should never speak to.
For what it's worth, I support your choice to be happy however that looks for you, and I support your notion that your happiness need not be tied to a life partner or a child. So there.
Thanks AA. I don't know what to say...
since it isn't that I don't want children, and it's not that I don't share my life with someone special.
It's the underlying assumption that I can never be happy until I have children, and that I should this and that and.... yeah... you know?!
I guess what I am trying to say is that it would have been more likely for me to be ok if I would've had children in my 20ies, but I'm sorry I didn't meet the Husband then and had the Fairytale dream.
I'll probably delete this post in a short while. I realise that it might be way to personal. sorry.
Don't apologize!! It's your blog and you can and should say what you want!
I really do understand what you're saying though. It's really grating to feel as if your own relatives *say* they want you to be happy, and you tell them that you *are* happy, and it turns out that what they really mean is that they want you to be happy in making the same choices that they did.
I've been having this same battle with my parents. I have a partner whom I'm very happy with. But we're not married. And we may or may not ever have kids and we're both pretty happy with that being an open-ended question at the moment.
This drives my mother absolutely crazy. While she has always been very supportive of my independence and education, now that I "have my PhD out of the way" I should start thinking about the important things like marriage and reproduction. I tried to tell her that these things are not important to me but she can't understand. They were the best choices for her and they make her very happy...so how could I NOT want the same? I think that there is also some fear that if I choose differently from her, maybe it means that I judge her choices for herself as bad choices. This is not at all the case, but I cannot seem to convince her otherwise.
Now I'm rambling on and on about myself - sorry about that. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your feelings about these things, and you're not crazy for feeling this way. Small comfort I'm sure, but there it is.
AA>I don't think you know how much it makes it better to know that other people are feeling the same thing. Feel free to rant away about you and your thoughts here in the comments! :)
I'm quite sure that the "choose differently than them" is the thing that makes them annoyed/scared. It's also a bit of a comparison going on... my friends talk about it too - some of their parents talk and it's a bit of a "look what my offspring has succeeded with" competition. It's all a bit overwhealming for me at times.
I mean, I would like for the decisions to be made out of what I want. Or what my SO and I want. Not what other people want. But at the same time, I am so tired of being told that I swim the wrong way (or being the odd one out... )
I would just like to know the "right" choice for me. Maybe in a while I will? Let's hope.
Wow, you have some crazy conversations with the people around you! Thank goodness for blogs, eh?!
Let me know if you figure out how to talk to your parents about this... I haven't worked it out yet. I did tell my Mum when I called her on Mother's Day (this past Sunday, in the UK) that I have a new-found appreciation for mothers, having seen the amount of work my good friends who had babies this year are putting into their new roles, and how little sleep they're getting and how difficult everything is. I'm hoping that will lay some of the groundwork... and I don't think it's going to come as a HUGE shock when we tell them we're not planning on kids... but still, like you say, they might well take it as a reflection of how I feel about the choices they made, which it isn't at all...
I can't believe that these people discussed these things *in front of you,* let alone at all. Actually, I can believe it, but it's awful just the same.
You are right to resist tying your self-worth to what some random co-workers or society or whomever thinks you ought to be doing. Being happy and being a decent person are much MUCH more important.
I thought the answer was 24? or maybe 12?
Just so all of you know, getting married and having kids does NOT make parents happy. They will never be happy. If you only have 1 kid, its why are not having more kids. If you have more kids its why are you working so much? If you are working part-time its why don't you come over more often? Translation - unless you live your life to center around us, your parents, you have betrayed us.
I'm sorry but that is the honest to goodness truth of the matter.
When monkey is >25 years of age and I'm bitching about him not doing XYZ, can someone promise to send this comment and some of my own posts back to me?
Except if its bitching about him not going to Uni. I have a thing for education, do something that doesn't need a degree, I don't care but you still have to get the damn degree. Even if its in something completely random.
Cath: I think it would be easier if I know or a fact that I don't want children... or what i want in general. At the moment, I feel a bit confused but I don't like being bullied into a corner and I'm not having any siblings so the grandchildren weighs a bit....
It's all in the "why aren't you just here with us" and "we want you to be happy" (but the second part of that is "do what we did"....) I'm hoping for clairity the next couple of months/years.... yes, I'm probably a sucker but I'm trying at least.
good luck with your parents!
Anon: trust me when I say this wasn't the first or even the wierdest time. There was a point when all of them, or almost all of them, "admitted" to not loving all thier children and that some of them were just annoying and a disappointment. As a non-American and brought up differently, I was quite embarassed.I don't care if you feel like that within yourself but to tell your coworkers you dislike your children? ehh... not so much.
I'm trying not to listen and care too much about my coworkers and others say. It's hard sometimes though. Since some of them are in my face....
SM: your comment came in while I was writing the other answer.
I know, your right. It's never enough. There is always something to complain about. And I'll send your comment back to monkey with a "get a DEGREE for you" when he is of age.
I just wish there was less of "I am disappointed in you" around... .and more of "i love you". I'm a bit of a sap. Especially tonight after a glass of wine.... Anyhow, thanks so much for the comment. And for what it's worth, I just wish that the fairy tale story with the marriage and the children and the happy ending would be something for all of us. clearly too much LMN for me tonight.
Chall,
Your co-workers sound insane. Listing the ways in which you might have disappointed your parents and then talking about how they don't love some of their kids??!
I second Scientistmother's point. I wish "being happy" was enough for my parents, too. And two decades from now, Bean-girl and Legume are probably going to feel exactly the same about me =) (Someone send this post and comment to the them, too, at that time?)
BeanMom ;) it's not just me who thought that conversation was a bit much then..... always good to know that I'm not the complete insane one ^^
I think the main wording for them was "grateful". That their children didn't express that they were grateful for their parents. I just couldn't relate.
Then again, I might have made it worse by saying that I didn't expect my parents to pay/give as much as they had done for their kids either... I guess it could be a cultural difference too - with more opportunities to do it on your own where I come from!? It seemed a bit like they all needed some more overt "I love you" concept - or just a hug.
Or maybe they were just venting. I just hope that next time they vent parental stuff - they don't drag me in as the "child".
(If I can, I'll send it to Legume and BG, but I doubt they'll need it. As with SM, you seem much more aware of the "potential problem")
I'm late to the comments, but as a single PhD girl in my late 30s, I totally agree. The one media stereotype that bugs me is that this society is all about families and for families and family fun, etc (and so if you are single and don't have a family possibly with at least three children or so, you just don't count). Not that I have anything against families (and like you say if I did meet someone appropriate in my 20ies, I would probably have a family, but tough luck, it just didn't happen), it's the media that overgeneralises this stuff that gets to me.
My parents on the other hand have stopped the pressure. I don't think this was because of anything that I did or said to them, but because my father got very very ill and I think then my mother realised (seems like for the first time in her life?) that there are big things that you can't control. Like getting ill. Or meeting an appopriate parnter in your 20ies.
Hugs (((chall)))
Other people are dicks.
-antipodean
Pika: yeah... I'll see what happens. I know the feeling though since there was a very long time I was single and quite happy too but something seem to change after the PhD degree and after hitting 30. Something magic?! ^^ (slightly ironic here)
I hope your father is better and that you are ok where you are.
Antipodean: That's one way of saying it too :) I just need to be reminded every once in awhile I guess.
I was going to say something along the lines of what SM just said, even though I am not sure that helps you any. Sometimes I wonder if people just want to make themselves feel better at others expense (like your coworkers - what assholes!), and if our parents are so insecure as to take our every action as our judgement of them. Don't let their problems get too much under your skin!
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